## How much scope is too much scope

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### How much scope is too much scope

I was thinking about getting an oscilloscope for a project I was working on, and I was wondering for the general hobby hacker, just how much scope would be too much scope? What should I even look for in buying a scope?

assuming that I'm working with low power MSP430s, AVRs, and at max an ARM mcu (max clock speed 100mhz). Would a DSO Nano V2 be my best bet?
kaluce

Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:13 pm

### Re: How much scope is too much scope

There's no hard rule for this, but the Nyquist theorem and Fourier wave theory help you make some basic decisions.

Nyquist says you can recover everything you need to know about a sine wave (its frequency and amplitude) if you sample it at more than twice its frequency. If you need to measure a 1000 Hz sine wave, your sampling rate needs to be at least 2001 Hz to get everything you need to know. If you sample at 2000 Hz, you'll get the frequency, but can't be sure you've got the right amplitude. Below 2000 Hz, you'll get what's called 'aliasing', which is what used to make it look like a car's wheels were spinning backwards in old movies.

To state Nyquist another way, the information you can learn is 'bandlimited' (meaning you don't get any more useful information) above half your sampling frequency.

Now we turn to M. Fourier, who proved that you can break any periodic function into an infinite sum of sine waves of different frequencies. The sum:

sinx + (sin 2x)/2 + (sin 3x)/3 + (sin 4x)/4 + ...

gives you better and better approximations of a sawtooth wave, for instance. If you add the odd multiples of x, you get a square wave.

We use integer multiples of the base frequency because it works, and it makes the calculations easier. Each multiple is called a 'harmonic', and the harmonic number equals the multiplier.. 2x = second harmonic, 3x = third harmonic, etc.

So.. the closer you get to the Nyquist frequency of your basic signal, the less you can know about the shape of the wave. At a sampling rate of 2001 Hz, you can't tell a 1000 Hz square wave from a 1000Hz triangle wave from a 1000 Hz sine wave, because all you'll get is the 1000 Hz sine wave component from all three.

The more you want to know about the shape of your wave, the more harmonics you need to be able to measure. That means you want a scope that can sample twice as fast as the highest harmonic you need.

As a general rule of thumb, sampling up to the 7th harmonic is pretty good. That means you want a scope whose sampling rate is about 15 times the highest base frequency you want to measure. A scope with a 30 MHz sampling rate will give you decent information about signals running up to around 2 MHz. A scope with a 1 MHz sampling rate will give you decent information about signals up to around 70 KHz.

From there, you make tradeoffs between what you want to measure and what you can afford.

If you're just starting out, a 1 MHz sampling rate will serve you well for circuits that work in the audio range. A 30 MHz scope will allow you to tweak digital circuits running at up to a couple megahertz. Beyond that, when you need it, you'll know it.
When you void a product warranty, you give up your right to sue the manufacturer if something goes wrong and accept full responsibility for whatever happens next. And then you truly own the product.

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Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:51 pm

### Re: How much scope is too much scope

That was very well written. If that's the case then, I'll probably pick up the Rigol scope in the store when I have a bit more money, which will probably end up saving me money in the long run. instead of buying two scopes to save money now, since it supports up to 50mhz, and would handle most if not all of my projects in the future. I have access to some heavy duty Agilent hardware at my job, but they're hard to access, and they get cheesed if I use them during company time.
kaluce

Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:13 pm

### Re: How much scope is too much scope

Thanks.. it's always a challenge to hit the zone between "say what?" and "my brain is full!" in a page or less.

Remember the basic rules of scope purchasing though:

1) There are always more signals you can measure.

1a) If you can still see the circuit, you can connect more diagnostic gear to it.

1b) The phrase 'too many probes' has no defined meaning in the EE dialect of English.

2) The correct number of scopes is N+x, for N = "the number of scopes I have now" and x >= 1.

3) If your wife still allows you into bed, you didn't spend too much for the latest scope.

3a) Jewelry, flowers, and other bribes are simply expenses to factor into the cost of the next scope.

3b) If the scope/bribe ratio is 1:1 or better, you got a good price.

3c) Scope/bribe ratios below 1:1 are acceptable for really good scopes.

Seriously though, a lower speed/precision/cost scope can still be useful. You can use it to track less important/slower moving reference voltages, freeing up channels on your good scope(s) for more interesting signals.
When you void a product warranty, you give up your right to sue the manufacturer if something goes wrong and accept full responsibility for whatever happens next. And then you truly own the product.